We think the first NY Interpreters Forum meeting went well. About 35 Terps showed up including some VERY PROMINENT MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY BOTH DEAF AND HEARING. There was your usual whining and complaining from some Terps -- those that just want to play the blame game. (Sometimes Terps really annoy us ... like the one's that refuse to see a need for a separate association to take on Agencies, but keep repeating "METRO RID is already in place!" Right after someone says: "Metro RID can not take on Terp Agencies." These communication specialists are not always so special. But, hey, we can be whiny annoying knuckleheads ourselves so guess everyone gets that right. Mostly, we were very proud of everyone in the room.
Main points (FROM OUR POV) --
1. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH SOMETHING IN AN AGENCY CONTRACT DO NOT SIGN IT -- FL terps need to learn that they have the right and power to TELL THE AGENCIES WHAT THEY WANT IN THE CONTRACT. Not vice versa. One long time Cert Terp says her contract with Signtalk is just fine since she told them HER policy on cancellation, rate etc.
IF WE ALL STAND FIRM, WE WIN. WE HAVE THE POWER!
2. IF YOUR TEAM DOESN'T SHOW UP FOR AN ASSIGNMENT and it's a long arduous assignment DO NOT DO IT. It sets a bad precedent for other terps. You STILL SHOULD BE PAID FOR YOUR PART OF THE ASSIGNMENT.
3. Signtalk generally sucks. (That's our winnowing down of the general comments about ST)
4. The majority of Terps -- including some prominent CDI's -- felt A COOP AGENCY WAS WORTH EXPLORING. Some terps didn't. But they were in the minority and their point was that "How would this be different than another agency." Which made us think they are missing the point, that a coop agency would be terp run. Could lower the price for the consumer. And protect terp standards and interests.
5. We probably should attend more Metro RID meetings. Even though the harsh, fascistic tone of some of the Terps that intimated that you somehow have sinned if you haven't attended the meetings turned us off. But we will go because we know we can accomplish more TOGETHER than apart. But WE DEFINITELY NEED AN ASSOCIATION that takes on the agencies and spreads the word about who is treating terps fairly and who isn't.
6. Licensure (which we don't know how to spell) seemed to be something people were discussing, but we really didn't grasp this yet, but will look into it. We gather it means that the state would offer licenses for Terps, so we gather that's another certification.
7. Other people than US are bothered by IRRESPONSIBLE TERPS WHO TEND TO NOT SHOW UP ON TIME, DO THEIR JOBS, DRESS APPROPRIATELY OR UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESS. (Although we have a bit more sympathy since we're still learning about the business.
8. Washington D.C. has a lot of work and according to one rabble rousing gal, it seems to pay to take the 4 hour round trip drive to work there from NYC. Do they pay travel?
9. Some Terps felt that the meeting possibly should take place where more deaf consumers could participate. There were only two -- unless we missed them -- deaf/HOH terps present. We feel that including more CDI's would be a great idea. And we're all for including more consumers as LONG AS THE FOCUS REMAINS ON THE WORKING CONDITIONS FOR TERPS. RID and NAD are there to deal with the profession as a whole. We need an association that is about working conditions for terps, which will also lead to better services. But from our encounters with RID (national and metro) it seemed a bit lackluster on ill-treatment of terps. Like, hello, where was RID when Terps were being used and abused by Viable? Yes, terps, needed to make their own decisions as well. But when they sought guidance from RID all they heard was crickets ... and a preternaturally long discussion and vote about whether someone can breast feed infants in the meeting. Arrrgh.
ALL IN ALL THE NY TERP FORUM WAS A GREAT MEETING, and we're looking forward to hearing more from this group. We are definitely looking forward to disseminating (anonymously) any juicy tidbits that come down the pike about Terp Practices and how we can whip these agencies into shape. Please leave comments and suggestions.
Have a beautiful day. And don't forget to sign in to nyinterpretersforum.com
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Hi, TSOI,
ReplyDeleteThanks for this update. Some quick thoughts for you:
(First, while I'm NYC Metro RID's Membership Chair, please note that the opinions expressed here are my own and not an official representation of any position that Metro RID might or might not hold. Having said that...)
2) Please clarify how someone who shows up to an assignment, sees no team, and leaves, should still get paid for that assignment.
5) As you wrote, the door to Metro RID's Membership Meetings (the next one is in April) are always open to all...and our next Membership Year will begin on July 1st. I don't know of the "fascistic" people of whom you speak, but, as I'm generally the first "official" Metro person whom people see when they arrive, I try to do what I can to make people feel welcome. So, I encourage you and others to come and see (and, if already members, participate in) our meetings for your/themselves.
6) Yes, that's how it's spelled. :)
8) This might be what you meant, but Washington, DC, is (at least) 4 hours each way, not simply round-trip. (By way of comparison, Philadelphia is close to a 4-hour round-trip.)
Thanks, and looking forward to your further thoughts...
Sincerely,
Bram Weiser, MS, CT
Membership Chair
New York City Metro RID
Thanks, Bram. If someone shows up at a 5 hour job expecting a team, and knows it will cause them physical harm -- and ethically be detrimental to the profession -- to do the assignment should refrain from doing the assignment but should be paid in full BECAUSE THEY BOOKED THEIR TIME. We were hearing a few terps yesterday act like it was a sin to want to earn a descent living being a terp. Besides being sanctimonious and perversely pious, it was also wrongheaded. If Terps aren't earning a descent wage, and be treated fairly, then they won't stay in the profession. Keep commenting. We like comments!!! Yay!
ReplyDeleteThanks for the follow-up, TSOI.
ReplyDelete(I'll just note that my previous proviso about my relationship with Metro RID holds now, and in future comments -- in this and any other post -- unless/until I state otherwise.)
If I may, though, become "Devil's Advocate" for a moment...
I can't help but think of what you're describing as seen from the Consumer (e.g., hiring company/individual)'s side.
True, the interpreter who showed up has committed his/her time for the assignment, and he/she is, as I read your original post, deciding him/herself to step aside (however valid the reasons for doing so).
As such, what would the hiring entity think about such a presumably-ethical interpreter? Among any other thoughts would doubtless be the sense that he/she (the hiring entity) is now being "taken" for the interpreter's fee, as no interpreting was being done, and that was at the same interpreter's decision.
In a word...huh?
Now, I definitely respect the commitment of time on behalf of the presumably-ethical interpreter, as I certainly strive to be one myself (as, doubtless, do many others involved with the Terp Forum and its efforts). However, I would respectfully suggest revisiting this point as tastes this sour in the mouths of those who'd hire us can only be detrimental to our burgeoning profession as it continues to grow and mature.
Bram
Good point, Bram. It won't look particularly good. But if we book our time and the agency has not followed through on their part to provide a team then we should be able to leave and still get paid. (Sometimes this is just an accident (sick team), but on the part of some agencies (ST) it seems all too frequent.) How about this. First, the Terp goes to the hiring entity (after calling the agency for back up.) Informs them about the hazard to the health of a Terp (and to the message being relayed) to interpret a 5 hour assignment on their own. Possibly the correct move would be -- and this is what I probably would do -- is to say to both hearing and deaf consumers: "I will interpret at 20 minute intervals." While this can be incredibly hard to do, i.e. stopping in the middle of a speech, to say: "I'm taking a break." See, I can't picture myself doing that. What do you suggest?
ReplyDeleteDear TSOI,
ReplyDeleteThanks for following up.
Off the top of my head, perhaps an alternative would be to not necessarily bill for the allotted time, so much as to bill a "cancellation fee" of sorts to the agency as it was their actions (or lack thereof) in your example that put the presumably-ethical interpreter in an untenable position.
Of course, that would hold even greater weight if said agency had already been informed by that interpreter of his/her policies regarding teaming, cancellations, etc., and/or if discussions had ensued (such as by email, which means there'd be a record) between the agency and the interpreter in the days/weeks leading up to the assignment in which specific questions about a team interpreter would be raised and responded-to.
True, in the end, the Consumer (hiring entity) would end up paying that fee in some way, but this might be a more effective, and more direct, approach for the situation you describe.
Further thoughts, please?
Bram
My feeling is if we are booked for an assignment and the assignment is canceled within 48 hours for any reason that isn't our making, then we are owed the entire fee since we booked the time. Figure it this way. If you hired me to clean your house for a day -- and the house was far away in the desert -- and you were supposed to have purchased the cleaning supplies when I got there, but when I arrived you didn't and there was no way to get them until the next day, then you would still owe me for the day I took to clean your house right? I can't get another job that day. It's the same if you hired me for a Terp job but (the entire job) can't be done by only one terp. If the job needs to be cancelled then the entire fee is owed. (In my opinion) This has been standard with most agencies for whom I have worked in the last 16 years. Although some contracts say 24 hours, (although the agency actually has a 48 hour policy on their part ... very uncool.) The best lesson I took from the recent forum is we need to have these things in writing and WE NEED TO WRITE THEM OURSELVES, not the agency. Recently I was sent to a 2 hour job that had 8 hearing people and one deaf. I asked where my team was. They said there was no team ... ever. I said I would need to take breaks and that there should always be a team for this job. I actually got a chance to discuss this with the Terp who has done the job previously. She said "Oh, they are spoiled with me." I let her know (pleasantly, because she's a nice woman) that it was setting a dangerous precedent and she might want to let them know it was not standard. Anyway, I enjoy talking about this stuff. I'll try to write a new post in the next day or so. Lots of gossip is going around post Forum. I'd love to tick off some Terps and see what they say. ;)
ReplyDeleteHi, again, TSOI,
ReplyDeleteOne key difference between your analogy and the original situation is that your analogy blames the people on-site for not doing something, whereas your original situation blames the agency that brought you in.
Also, in the original situation, sure, the agency didn't live up to what was expected (promised?) but it's still you who's technically cancelling.
I definitely understand your point, but my concerns remain. :)
Thanks,
Bram
Sign Language Resources has abusive terms in their contract that violate independent contractor laws and require us to sign contract “as is.” v.
ReplyDelete*IMPORTANT NOTE: Due to recent changes in SLR’s customer contracts, failure to sign this document will jeopardize your working relationship with SLR.
3.1.4.1 Other requests after cancellation. If the interpreter is to be paid for canceled work, and other interpreting work is requested through SLR for all or part of the canceled hours, SLR reserves the right to ask the interpreter to perform the other work, under reasonable circumstances. The amount invoiced to SLR by the interpreter will be at least equal to that of the original assignment, but for invoicing purposes, may be divided into different jobs and job numbers.
7. EXCLUSIVITY
7.1 Non-compete. All interpreters in private practice who contract interpreting work through SLR, agree that they shall not, directly or indirectly, solicit business or provide interpreting services to any of SLR's customers or consumers, at the job site where they were introduced to said customer or consumer, by SLR, for a period of at least one (1) year from the date of termination of the working relationship between SLR and SLR's customer.
7.2 Exclusivity of assignment acceptance. While SLR is under contract to provide interpreting services, the interpreters who go to those contracted job sites shall not accept work from those job sites/consumers directly. SLR is to be contacted by the requester if they would like the interpreter to return to their job site. An SLR business card can be given to SLR's on-site point of contact by the interpreter with the interpreter's name written on the line provided on the card.
8.3 Automobile insurance. Interpreters with cars shall furnish SLR with proof of current automobile insurance, to be kept on file at the SLR office. The copy of the policy shall be provided annually or upon renewal of the policy.
1.3 RATE CONFIDENTIALITY - All interpreters in private practice who contract interpreting work through SLR shall keep all rate negotiations confidential. This information is private and if an interpreter is found to have shared this information, it will jeopardize their working relationship with SLR
*IMPORTANT NOTE: Due to recent changes in SLR’s customer contracts, failure to sign this document will jeopardize your working relationship with SLR.
I, _____________________________,(print your name), have read, understand, and hereby agree to all of the attached policies and procedures set forth in the document SLR Policies and Procedures revised on 4/11/08.
Signed by:_____________________________________________ Date:_________________________________
Dear terp pro,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your post.
If I may note, items #7.1 & 7.2 are, in my experience, common among pretty much all of the agencies I've dealt with, and, in truth, sound quite ethical to me in terms of proper business practice.
I've NEVER heard anyone suggest that it's acceptable for an interpreter to "solicit" (my word) or accept work from a potential client for whom he/she worked while being represented in that specific work by an agency, certainly not within an appropriate period of time after the assignment takes place.
I'd also been asked by agencies to, likewise, give their business cards (even with my name upon them) instead of my own if it comes up in conversations with that client, and I have no issue with that, either, for the same reason.
At those assignments, we represent those agencies, even if we're technically independent contractors while there. I see no harm in being identified with that agency for possible future work with that client if, indeed, it was that agency that put me in position to work with that client in the first place.
Your thoughts, please?
Bram
Bram, you can’t parse it that way, “At those assignments, we represent those agencies, even if we’re technically independent contractors there." We are either independent contractors or not. Carrying the agency’s business card directly violates independent contractor laws from IRS. While I agree that it may not be ethical to compete, the ability to compete is an indicator of an independent contractor relationship. They are really two separate issues: independent contractor and ethical requirements. See government guidelines below.
ReplyDeleteIndicators of independent contractor status may include:
• using business cards, business stationery, and billheads
• providing services concurrently for other businesses, competitive or non-competitive
Dear terp pro,
ReplyDeleteLet me see if I understand your point...
We're at the assignment because an agency sent us (they got the assignment from their client, and we agreed to do it on their behalf), so, when said client wants a business card from us, we give...one that is ours and ours alone? Are you saying that this assignment is equivalent to us having been hired directly by the client? I don't believe it is, even if we're still independent contractors.
Also, no one says we can't compete with an agency in the big picture of "interpreting work that becomes available in our geographic area". Clearly, we can.
What the issue isn't, however, is us competing for a particular client's business when an agency already had it...and sent us to work there. That's where I draw the line, and where agencies (plural) do, and I agree with that distinction.
Bram
"Recently I was sent to a 2 hour job that had 8 hearing people and one deaf. I asked where my team was. They said there was no team ... ever. I said I would need to take breaks and that there should always be a team for this job. I actually got a chance to discuss this with the Terp who has done the job previously. She said "Oh, they are spoiled with me." I let her know (pleasantly, because she's a nice woman) that it was setting a dangerous precedent and she might want to let them know it was not standard" - TSIT, wasnt it your responsibility (because you know your work demands) to ensure you were working with a team prior to accepting this gig? You say you were "sent" to the job? This implies you had little to no control over what you were signing on for...was that the case? I recognize the importance of individual interpreters considering the precedent they set when performing work under certain conditions (thus your discussion with the regular Interpreter). I offer another perspective: is it possible there is a specific reason the interpreter who regularly does this gig has been doing it solo all along? You entered an environment as the "newcomer" and imposed your ideology on the players in that setting. Sometimes, we make exceptions to our standard work practices for the good of the Deaf individual or community (in some cases this may be counterproductive). However, I think that is what seems to be lacking the most...perhaps not enough of us are doing pro-bono or pseudo-pro-bono work for fear of setting a bad precedent. We are afraid of changing our "work demands" for fear it will be taken for granted and we will lose ground in our ever challenged demands for good working conditions. Its a tough balance to achieve but I think some compassion for the community that birthed this profession needs to be considered. At the same time, we need to take responsibility for asking all the right questions for ourselves before we accept a job. Neh?
ReplyDelete